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January 2004

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2004.01.14 17:14 "http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.14 17:46 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.14 18:45 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Frank Warmerdam
2004.01.14 19:11 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by David Burken
2004.01.14 20:55 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Andrey Kiselev
2004.01.14 21:33 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.14 22:29 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Andrey Kiselev
2004.01.14 19:22 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.14 21:04 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Andrey Kiselev
2004.01.14 22:06 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Marco Schmidt
2004.01.14 22:40 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.14 22:57 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Marco Schmidt
2004.01.14 23:16 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.14 23:22 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.14 23:39 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.14 23:47 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.14 23:05 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by <karron@casi.net>
2004.01.14 23:57 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Chris Cox
2004.01.15 00:11 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.15 11:37 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Mike Williams
2004.01.15 12:32 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Mike Williams
2004.01.15 13:46 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.15 15:55 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Mike Williams
2004.01.15 16:10 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.15 16:37 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Mike Williams
2004.01.15 17:02 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.15 17:00 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.15 18:06 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Frank Warmerdam
2004.01.15 21:17 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme
2004.01.15 22:25 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Richard Eckles
2004.01.15 22:50 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Chris Losinger
2004.01.15 23:00 "Don't advertise your willingness to contribute...", by Peter Smith
2004.01.16 08:26 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Rob Tillaart
2004.01.16 16:02 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Bob Friesenhahn
2004.01.15 17:32 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by David Burken
2004.01.15 15:40 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Joris Van Damme

2004.01.15 18:06 "Re: http://www.libtiff.org/", by Frank Warmerdam

Joris wrote:
> > It would seem so - looking at the html the payment looks to go
> 
> That at least is defenite proof of faul intentions then.

Folks,

Note, he only claims to use donations to provide the hosting function.
Slimey but it would be hard to prove fraud.  I would add that I presume
the web site materials to be under the same license as the rest of libtiff
in which case there is no problem with folks modifying and using it.

> > Posting something to slashdot.org
> 
> I agree. So, what are we going to post? Any candidates for writing up the
> text? If not, it's going to be me bigmouth.

Before posting anything to slashdot or elsewhere I would suggest you
run it buy Andrey, me and Mike Welles.

> > Also, the site is hosted by Network Operations Center Inc. in the
> > States, but it appears to be SPAM hoster.  I imagine they are pretty
> > immune to complaints.
> 
> Again, does it really matter?

It is pointless to try and harrass an organization that has gone
over to the darkside supporting spam and domain piracy.  They will
be immune to normal complaints.

> > TTFN
> 
> I'm not native English, in fact, I hardly speak English. Could you please
> de-abbriviate this for me? Unless if it's not very flattering... ;-)

I believe it is "ta ta for now" ... sort of like "see you later".

> May I guess who that negligant company is? Is one guess going to suffice?

It was Mike Welles old employer.  It isn't their fault.  They presumably
registered it at his request or perhaps he just did it in their name.

> > Obviously the company used predatory tactics since they immediately
> > populated libtiff.org with the original material.
> 
> Yes, indeed, and that is another definite sign of fault intentions.

It is vaguely possible the believe they are providing a service,
though I am doubtful.

> I think it doesn't even matter how this came about exactly, and what legal
> actions we can or cannot take exactly, and who's going to pay notice to our
> complaints exactly. If we are going to do this the 'correct' way, we'll grow
> a beard size of the Eiffeltower and still not accomplish anything. I
> understand Andrey has been trying to accomplish something the 'correct' way
> for quite some time now, so that should prove my point.

Well, I think he just made a few inquires a few weeks ago.  It isn't like
all options are exausted yet.

> I think we need to put some predator actions on this matter ourselves. Let's
> really bother him. Let's
> - Stop talking about the things we can do, unless it's new ideas or actual
> action. We already agreed on the three idea's Marco Schmidt offered
> yesterday, didn't we? (German copyright related newsgroup, slashdot and cb
> or something) So let's put some action into it. Marco offered to translate
> to German where necessary.  Anyone offering to write up some texts?
> - I still think the main reason the 'correct' way doesn't work is that
> absolutely noone is bothered with it. So let's start bothering. Anyone
> offering to compile a list of e-mail as well as snail-mail addresses to
> bother? Let's make noise! This would include his ISP for starters, even if
> they aren't interested.
> - Do people here agree that it is a good idea to let the man know that he's
> in for quite a storm? If he's got any sense at all, he'll know it's time to
> quit. So let's just mail him personally too, with a simple link to the
> on-line version of this thread.
> - Do people here give me a mandate for contacting Belgium computer crime
> police? They won't be able to do anything at all, I guess, but they will
> certainly be able to point me to the right german channels if there are any.
> Again, I don't really care if they can stop him, they certainly can and will
> make it very difficult on him and harress him.
> - He's gathering funds through Paypal. Anyone here offering to write up some
> text to notify Paypal of the crimes committed through their channel? If he's
> got any sense at all, he'll make sure Paypal doesn't ban him. Again, I don't
> care if it works, I care for making lots of problems for him.
> - Anyone offering to trace all the groups he has a membership in? Familly,
> friends? Let's destroy his image of successfull business man he no doubt has
> and let his environment know what he really does for a living.
> - And I think the de-google-izing is a good idea too. Do people here agree?
> Anyone able and willing to write up a text?
> 
> I'm asking a lot of 'anyone able and willing', I know. I also know that I
> have a talent for making noise, but am not always very good in writing up
> exactly correct texts. I hardly even master English. That's why I'm hoping
> someone else will do this. But if noone does, and people do not object to me
> doing it, then I will.
> 
> Let's put some action into this! The man messed with the wrong green-eyed
> stepchild, because it's OUR green-eyed stepchild.

Your passion is ... overwhelming.

My opinion is that a next logical step would be for someone with passable
German to try and contact the domain holder or some contact for one of his
businesses to request the domain back.  We can point out that we are willing
to pay a very modest fee for the domain (say $100USD from me), and that there
really won't be anyone else interested in it besides us.

If the "carrot" doesn't work, we can also threaten to initiate complaint
procedures in the press, in the courts and perhaps with folks like Paypal
though I don't think any of those avenues will give a particularly large
hit if he is the scumsucker he would seem to be.  What could get to him is
if we were to repeatedly contact him trying to buy various domains from him,
and once we have wasted some of his time, to explain that we want libtiff.org
back.  I'm sure he and his organization value their personel time.

No harm in you initiating the above Joris, if you wish.  I would suggest
not taking anything to the "press" till you have made at least a reasonably
effort to contact him.

Best regards,

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