2021.09.30 09:44 "[Tiff] TR: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard (email thread with Scott Foshee): FYI", by Emmanuel Devys

2021.09.30 09:44 "[Tiff] TR: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard (email thread with Scott Foshee): FYI", by Emmanuel Devys

De: Scott Foshee [mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com]
Envoyé: lundi 26 octobre 2020 21:53
À: Emmanuel Devys; Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org)
Cc: wprotzman@dcscorp.com; 'Wilkes, Graham (NRCAN/RNCAN)' (graham.wilkes@canada.ca); Jennifer Hum-Miller; Roger Lott (EPSG); Even Rouault (even.rouault@spatialys.com); Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil; Larry Beck; geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org; Scott Foshee
Objet: Re: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Hi Emmanual and Scott…

Since Adobe is the copyright holder for Adobe TIFF, you can not create a Geospatial TIFF standard that’s based on Adobe TIFF without a license from Adobe.

I explained that this was not an option in an earlier e-mail.

I would be happy to convey this directly to the OGC legal department. Scott, are you the correct person at OGC for Adobe to convey copyright issues?

Also, I know the folks at ISO and will update them.

Thanks,

Scott

From: Emmanuel Devys <Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr<mailto:Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr>>
Date: Monday, October 26, 2020 at 3:56 PM
To: Scott Foshee <sfoshee@adobe.com<mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com>>
Cc: "wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>" <wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>>, "'Wilkes, Graham (NRCAN/RNCAN)' (graham.wilkes@canada.ca<mailto:graham.wilkes@canada.ca>)" <graham.wilkes@canada.ca<mailto:graham.wilkes@canada.ca>>, Jennifer Hum-Miller <JENNIFER.HUMMILLER@forces.gc.ca<mailto:JENNIFER.HUMMILLER@forces.gc.ca>>, "Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>)" <ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>>, "Roger Lott (EPSG)" <epsg.rl@btinternet.com<mailto:epsg.rl@btinternet.com>>, "Even Rouault (even.rouault@spatialys.com<mailto:even.rouault@spatialys.com>)" <even.rouault@spatialys.com<mailto:even.rouault@spatialys.com>>, "Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil<mailto:Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil>" <Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil<mailto:Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil>>, Larry Beck <larry.beck@cmpsinc.com<mailto:larry.beck@cmpsinc.com>>, "geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>" <geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>>
Subject: RE: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Hi Scott
Thanks for answer.

In your email dated 14 Oct. you asked:
Can you elaborate on what sort of Adobe acknowledgement you are seeking?
I did it on Oct. 15th.
We (OGC and GeoTIFF users) are still expecting a better answer from Adobe, otherwise we’ll consider other potential actions, as OGC or ISO, why not a Geospatial TIFF standard, as Geospatial TIFF is not like photographic or printing TIFF.
As you may know, I’m only acting at a technical level, on basis of technical arguments in 2020 at a time when interoperability and open standards are global requirements, even if legal issues must be addressed.

The OGC and possibly ISO will probably have to consider this situation, this goes beyond my action as OGC GeoTIFF.SWG Chair.

Best regards
Emmanuel

De: Scott Foshee [mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com]<mailto:[mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com]>
Envoyé: lundi 26 octobre 2020 20:13
À: Emmanuel Devys
Cc: wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>; 'Wilkes, Graham (NRCAN/RNCAN)' (graham.wilkes@canada.ca<mailto:graham.wilkes@canada.ca>); Jennifer Hum-Miller; Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>); Roger Lott (EPSG); Even Rouault (even.rouault@spatialys.com<mailto:even.rouault@spatialys.com>); Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil<mailto:Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil>; Larry Beck; geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>; Scott Foshee
Objet: Re: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Hi Emmanuel,

Please reference my e-mail of Oct 14th. Likewise, I tried to be clear, but I will re-iterate the key points.

I will (again) forward your updated request to the Adobe folks who maintain the database and inform management of your request.

As I’ve indicated previously, I’m not aware of any instance where we have provided the acknowledgement you request. Your request is unique and a-typical. It is out-of-scope for what Adobe provides to those who have requested TIFF tags.

Any formal guarantee would need to be provided by an officer of Adobe. You should have no expectation that Adobe will ever provide the formal acknowledgement you seek.

Adobe defined TIFF, uses TIFF, maintains the copyright, and controls TIFF tags by issuing tag numbers to requestors. To my knowledge, we have never published a list of tags other than the ones we use.

If it becomes possible for me to provide you more information regarding your request, I’ll let you know.

Best Regards,

Scott



From: Emmanuel Devys <Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr<mailto:Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr>>
Date: Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 5:41 PM
To: Scott Foshee <sfoshee@adobe.com<mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com>>
Cc: "wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>" <wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>>, "'Wilkes, Graham (NRCAN/RNCAN)' (graham.wilkes@canada.ca<mailto:graham.wilkes@canada.ca>)" <graham.wilkes@canada.ca<mailto:graham.wilkes@canada.ca>>, Jennifer Hum-Miller <JENNIFER.HUMMILLER@forces.gc.ca<mailto:JENNIFER.HUMMILLER@forces.gc.ca>>, "Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>)" <ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>>, "Roger Lott (EPSG)" <epsg.rl@btinternet.com<mailto:epsg.rl@btinternet.com>>, "Even Rouault (even.rouault@spatialys.com<mailto:even.rouault@spatialys.com>)" <even.rouault@spatialys.com<mailto:even.rouault@spatialys.com>>, "Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil<mailto:Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil>" <Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil<mailto:Charles.M.Heazel.ctr@nga.mil>>, Larry Beck <larry.beck@cmpsinc.com<mailto:larry.beck@cmpsinc.com>>
Subject: RE: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Hi Scott
Nine days ago, I did my best to send you exhaustive information of the tags that are needed for geospatial imagery and gridded data (such as terrain elevation data).
As you know, our previous conversation about this dates for more than 4 months, and there seem to be no progress.

Once again TIFF/GeoTIFF is of significant / strong interest for geospatial domains (civil and defense).

We only just want you / Adobe, to formally guarantee that "yes we have reserved the values for the following tags”:

  * GeoTIFF 6 tags (see https://www.ogc.org/standards/geotiff<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ogc.org%2Fstandards%2Fgeotiff&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145435322%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=R8lrayU%2FF4eloAqn8JWY9cVdO0Y60fghHgoGLh7JDYg%3D&reserved=0> OGC, being Open Geospatial Consortium):
     * 33550 830E (Hex) ModelPixelScaleTag
     * 33922 8482 (Hex) ModelTiepointTag
     * 34264 85D8 (Hex) ModelTransformationTag
     * 34735 87AF (Hex) GeoKeyDirectoryTag
     * 34736 87B0 (Hex) GeoDoubleParamsTag
     * 34737 87B1 (Hex) GeoAsciiParamsTag
  * GDAL 2 tags (see http://gdal.org):
     * 42112 A480 (Hex) GDAL_METADATA
     * 42113 A481 (Hex) GDAL_NODATA
  * DGIWG 2 tags (see http://www.dgiwg.org/dgiwg-standards<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dgiwg.org%2Fdgiwg-standards&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145445318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bB2qxYaLBDaVui%2By%2FJhKtOvkg7kp2yQqL%2BTp5E9L4oE%3D&reserved=0> for GeoTIFF/TIFF profile)
     * 50908 C6DC (Hex) TIFF_RSID
     * 50909 C6DD (Hex) GEO_METADATA
Note: all these tags are clearly documented at https://www.awaresystems.be/imaging/tiff/tifftags/private.html<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags%2Fprivate.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145445318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=aC54%2BFrWTE%2Bub5GwHME3pNp3D69U3rqvUf6BmT2gzcc%3D&reserved=0>

Therefore we only want to ensure that Adobe has reserved these widely used and acknowledged tags, for more than 20 years (for the GeoTIFF and GDAL tags).

In my previous email, I provided sufficient and exhaustive additional information.

Therefore I can’t understand why you / Adobe is not proactive giving a positive answer.
Maybe you had additional contact with Scott Simmons, OGC, about this question. Scott and OGC proposal could be to ask Adobe if OGC can post these (the above mentioned) registered tag list in the OGC Definitions Server registry as a public service. There should be no harm to Adobe and OGC can argue that our user base has a critical need for such information.

Hoping that you can reconsider this request and provide a positive answer within reasonable timeline. If there would be any issue, be so kind as to indicate, so that we may evaluate the best workaround or solution.

Best regards

Emmanuel Devys
OGC GeoTIFF.SWG Chair
DGIWG Imagery Panel Chair
IGN Département Normalisation et référentiels projets| Service des Projets et Prestations
direction des programmes et de l’appui aux politiques publiques
T +33 (0) 1 43 98 85 75
ign.fr<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.fr%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145455307%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=EqBXHn8diP64O3IhNYNLPlonAE54RllSlEKe2wabq3E%3D&reserved=0> – geoportail.gouv.fr<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeoportail.gouv.fr%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145455307%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xysPy8JFUZ53%2BU4du2siJ3B1OhglMii%2F9EE2atME6Tg%3D&reserved=0>


De: GeoTIFF.swg [mailto:geotiff.swg-bounces+emmanuel.devys=ign.fr@lists.opengeospatial.org]<mailto:[mailto:geotiff.swg-bounces+emmanuel.devys=ign.fr@lists.opengeospatial.org]> De la part de Emmanuel Devys via GeoTIFF.swg
Envoyé: jeudi 15 octobre 2020 11:20
À: Scott Foshee; Larry Beck
Cc: wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>; 'Wilkes, Graham (NRCAN/RNCAN)' (graham.wilkes@canada.ca<mailto:graham.wilkes@canada.ca>); Jennifer Hum-Miller; geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>; Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>)
Objet: Re: [GeoTIFF.swg] Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard
Importance: Haute

Hi Scott and Larry
Thanks for prompt answer and information.

I try to provide answers and element of information below (in the text of your email), hoping you have a sufficient level of information.
As I do not know about the level of acknowledgement / registration of GeoTIFF tags on the one hand, and GDAL tags on the other hands, I provide some information about those, just in case, but there are only 2 DGIWG tags that require additional registration (under DGIWG as the authority pushing this requirement). See below for clarification.

Please be so kind as to provide comments (if necessary) and indicate what should be done from DGIWG.
For the potential ISO topic, I’m not sure whether Geospatial imagery and gridded data may fit under TIFF-EP (ISO 12234-2), I doubt it (but this is only my own view – see below).
I copy Graham Wilkes Chair of ISO TC211 WG6 – Imagery for awareness on this discussion.

Hoping this helps
Best regards

Emmanuel Devys
DGIWG P2/Imagery Chair
IGN Département Normalisation et référentiels projets| Service des Projets et Prestations
direction des programmes et de l’appui aux politiques publiques
T +33 (0) 1 43 98 85 75
ign.fr<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.fr%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145465305%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=1LdacuLIUhQ6kGEPE%2FqyoAPqNhQTas8QGoELGMA%2BpcA%3D&reserved=0> – geoportail.gouv.fr<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeoportail.gouv.fr%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145465305%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IFRI1r%2FG9aXvv9LHuwPkVptrWThv4UYdFCYSGhNLeXc%3D&reserved=0>



De: Scott Foshee [mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com]<mailto:[mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com]>
Envoyé: jeudi 15 octobre 2020 03:59
À: Emmanuel Devys; Larry Beck
Cc: geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>; Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>); wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>; Scott Foshee
Objet: Re: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

HI Emmanual..

I’ve asked a different contact within the DNG team about the status of the tag numbers you provided…

Can you elaborate on what sort of Adobe acknowledgement you are seeking?
EDS: Sure.

  1. I guess you know about DGIWG (Defence Geospatial Information Working Group, see http://www.dgiwg.org/<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dgiwg.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145475295%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Iz50GKk6zY2qeJdozKup94nXgTgmorB4Xe3ST%2FncntY%3D&reserved=0> that is the standardization body for Defence, a multi-national body established by an memorandum of understanding between the defence organisations of about 25 allied nations). I copy Jennifer Hum-Miller, the Technical Coordinator of DGIWG, for information. DGIWG is developing open standards for Defence on basis of ISO and OGC standards. DGIWG has developed (since 2009 and maintained) a TIFF/GeoTIFF profile for Defense Geospatial Imagery (and Elevation data), DGIWG STD-108 see http://portal.dgiwg.org/files/70843<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.dgiwg.org%2Ffiles%2F70843&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145475295%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=agHEJueDZjh0LnYgYYYlW9F4Bp4U1e9nqZl1eATCw%2Fo%3D&reserved=0>, which relies on TIFF and GeoTIFF. As a geospatial standard, it includes a requirement for metadata.
  2. I guess there is no need to do it for GeoTIFF, which are the Geo tags for geospatial imagery. GeoTIFF is probably acknowledged and supported by Adobe. If not, I can provide information for GeoTIFF 1.0 (developed by NASA JPL and SPOT Image), which became maintained by the OSGeo (Open Source Geospatial Foundation). GeoTIFF 1.1 is now an OGC (Open Geospatial Consortium) standard (http://www.ogc.org<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ogc.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145485292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=e9FI5UpK9RwuglKklsWO0hY5%2BY%2Bt8xFbLt5Sihn20SQ%3D&reserved=0>). Scott Simmons is the Chief Operations Officer and Executive Director.
  3. The first 2 tags of interest by DGIWG have been defined by the open-source GDAL (http://gdal.org/<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgdal.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145485292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QYNXtEYxTKkwqymvyy7Hjwcc7KMhVZEWgV6kG3VtcLA%3D&reserved=0>). GDAL is an OSGeo project and a widely used toolkit / translator library for Geospatial information: I copy Even Rouault, who is in charge of GDAL support and maintenance. I am unaware whether Adobe is already aware / supporting these 2 tags. They have been used for probably about 2 decades. These 2 tags are endorsed by DGIWG. As a reminder (if necessary), the definition of these tags are provided below:
Code

Name

Short description

Dec.

Hex

42112

A480

GDAL_METADATA<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags%2Fgdal_metadata.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145495290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=B1rsgvBII%2BxvXviPT8bimO6Tiw%2BKCAgf0MMN0qCAFd4%3D&reserved=0>

Used by the GDAL library, holds an XML list of name=value 'metadata' values about the image as a whole, and about specific samples.

42113

A481

GDAL_NODATA<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags%2Fgdal_nodata.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145495290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Q4inkZegYXVWQKP1CxTvjccpQypMGQH%2FUIyVCn3UKCk%3D&reserved=0>

Used by the GDAL library, contains an ASCII encoded nodata or background pixel value.




  1. The last 2 TIFF tags have been specified (in DGIWG STD-108 mentioned above) by DGIWG as the authoritative organization in support of them. I am unaware whether Adobe would need any formal submission for Adobe acknowledgement. Please inform us if this would be necessary.
Code

Name

Short description

Dec.

Hex

50908

C6DC

TIFF_RSID<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags%2Ftiff_rsid.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145505282%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=iWuVyu55W2up5tdhzN2%2Bd7hcQ0Ht8KcwHnqa9pX3LU8%3D&reserved=0>

File Universal Unique Identifer, or RSID, according to DMF definition (type ASCII)

50909

C6DD

GEO_METADATA<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags%2Fgeo_metadata.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145505282%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=lTdrji7d63ophegH6lOYRMXXd1VJ86P2AS6jTalX0HI%3D&reserved=0>

This tag may be used for embedding XML-encoded instance documents prepared using 19139-based schema (type Byte: UTF-8)


In conclusion, the DGIWG requirement is to ensure the GeoTIFF tags (TIFF private tags), the 2 aforementioned GDAL TIFF private tags and the 2 aforementioned DGIWG TIFF private tags (TIFF_RSID and GEO_METADATA) are duly registered (by Adobe in charge and ownership of TIFF) as TIFF private tags, and documented openly.


Any authoritative Adobe comment can not come directly from me; I think what you want would need to be approved for release/publication if you seek something you can point to as official from Adobe. My role re TIFF is to help external folks use Adobe TIFF, including their getting tags if needed. TiFF is part of my standardization work, which is how I know both Bill and Larry. Your request is a bit unique, but I’m glad to try to help.
EDS: the requirement / request come presently from me as DGIWG Imagery Panel Chair, but if you need it, it can be sent as a formal request form DGIWG director. Please be also aware that a NATO STANAG is relying on DGIWG GeoTIFF profile.


So that you better understand our TIFF tag process…

Some tags are defined by Adobe and published by Adobe and used in our products.

Other tag numbers are requested by TIFF users and issued by Adobe, but the definition and publication of the tag is left to the requestor. Some seek private tags because they can have an opaque definition. Adobe typically does not publish these requested tags. Sometimes only the organization requesting the tag is associated with the tag—neither the tag name nor definition. This is viewed as a feature of TIFF, not a bug. Some companies do not want tag info published, but wanted to leverage TIFF readers/writers—only needing to add implementation for their specific tags. Adobe’s role is to deconflict by controlling the base spec and by issuing tag numbers—which we still do today. My informal understanding is that Aware attempted to gather an informal database of the private TIFF tags known to them. Adobe does not publish the tag list.

FYI, Adobe DNG is a TIFF file with a specific set of tags. We regularly add TIFF tags in support of increasing DNG capability. Adobe DNG is written by most digital cameras.

Further, there are two ISO standard based on TIFF and one IETF standard. All three done under limited license agreements from Adobe to the specific ISO committee for a specific project. Adobe no longer provides these; the last was issued about 1998. Since we no longer offer this license, I recently worked with an ISO committee to develop a standard that extends one done under license. Folks associated with all these efforts request tags.

Although this might not fit your needs, I wonder if whoever originally requested the geotags you want acknowledged (ie, likely whoever owns the copyright to their definition) would consider submitting--just the tag definition--for standardization in ISO as an extension to either of the published ISO TIFF standards (TIFF-EP or TIFF-IT). I think SC24 could do this. I would suggest considering TIFF-EP, the one defined for photography, to see if adding your tags to TIFF-EP would be functionally equivalent to what you do today.
EDS: Photography and ISO SC24 is of course a key domain for the usage of TIFF, with TIFF-EP. However, geospatial information has some specific features, and raster / gridded information is not only orthoimage/orthophotos, it may be elevation or soundings. A Geospatial profile of TIFF would be of interest (IMHO), either as an ISO (and in this case why not TC211 – Geographic information– standard), or an OGC standard. Such a standard would endorse the GeoTIFF tags, the GDAL tags, and could potentially endorse the DGIWG tags (which have an interest not only for Defence – in this case they can be required) but also for public sectors.


Hope this helps. I’m hoping to be able to confirm that these tags were issued along with some associated information.

Thanks,

Scott

From: Emmanuel Devys <Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr<mailto:Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr>>
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 3:57 AM
To: Scott Foshee <sfoshee@adobe.com<mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com>>, Larry Beck <larry.beck@cmpsinc.com<mailto:larry.beck@cmpsinc.com>>
Cc: "geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>" <geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>>, "Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>)" <ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>>, "wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>" <wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>>
Subject: RE: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Hi Scott and Larry
Following our contact in July, I had no further echo from you on these Geospatial TIFF tags GDAL_NODATA, GDAL_METADATA (defined by GDAL http://gdal.org/<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgdal.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145515275%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=fmLlnbbi56DZYNy1o3NvGkCgbCvb4iDXjvgoqIRDvrU%3D&reserved=0>, which is the geospatial toolkit), GEO_METADATA defined by DGIWG GeoTIFF profile (http://www.dgiwg.org<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dgiwg.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145515275%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=U878b5izcfjPl9niEHz2WoeKXUWXNZVtw4%2B1nngRIjE%3D&reserved=0>, DGIWG being Defence Geospatial Information WG). I would also add TIFF_RSID (50908), see http://www.awaresystems.be/imaging/tiff/tifftags/private.html<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags%2Fprivate.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145525268%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DC4pMuSfWMseU1BD7gOnyX6of6oaSTnRdhRtZJMLmjs%3D&reserved=0>

These tags are strongly used by Defense including NATO for TIFF geospatial imagery.
There is a strong need to have this acknowledged / registered by Adobe, as it seems that http://www.awaresystems.be/imaging/tiff/tifftags/private.html<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags%2Fprivate.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145525268%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DC4pMuSfWMseU1BD7gOnyX6of6oaSTnRdhRtZJMLmjs%3D&reserved=0> is informative only and not authoritative.

Thanks in advance for consideration and feeback

Best regards

Emmanuel Devys
DGIWG P2/Imagery Chair
IGN Département Normalisation et référentiels projets| Service des Projets et Prestations
direction des programmes et de l’appui aux politiques publiques
T +33 (0) 1 43 98 85 75
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De: Emmanuel Devys
Envoyé: mardi 7 juillet 2020 13:30
À: 'Scott Foshee'; Larry Beck
Cc: geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>; Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>); wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>
Objet: RE: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Hi Scott
Thanks for your positive answer.

As the pilot of the OGC GeoTIFF.SWG (technical pilot), yes I confirm we need Adobe to acknowledge the OGC GeoTIFF 1.1 standard (action 1), as the current reference to the OGC private tags (for remote sensing data and geomatics imagery / elevation data), in addition to the previous GeoTIFF 1.0 (which was developed by NASA, JPL and SpotImage).
The main difference is that The OGC GeoTIFF become a “de jure” standard maintained by a standardization organization.

In addition to this acknowledgement of OGC GeoTIFF tags (the ones that Adobe has (most presumably) already referenced in the Adobe register of tags – please indicate if this is not the case), we also need some extended TIFF tags for compression, and the private tags referenced below in previous email, that I copy hereafter:

  * GDAL_NODATA (42113), commonly used for padding pixels / pixels with no value (used by GDAL library, but may be also used without GDAL library – unless I am wrong).
  * GDAL_METADATA (42112), used by the GDAL library (https://gdal.org/<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgdal.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145545261%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZT97fljKaCFvffHVWXucgee6Ul6gQs%2Fx7yKNmrvOhnI%3D&reserved=0>), holds an XML list of name=value 'metadata' values about the image as a whole, and about specific samples. This tag is a base tag for GDAL library.
  * GEO_METADATA (50909): for geospatial metadata, e.g based on ISO 19115 standards or profile (submitted by DGIWG). This one is necessary in support of DGIWG profile (for Defense).

I do not know whether such private tags are referenced at Adobe. Please indicate if they are acknowledged or not (action 1).
For information on the definition of these tags, I can provide the following link, where there is a clear definition of these tags.

  * https://www.awaresystems.be/imaging/tiff/tifftags.html<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145545261%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QQQAHCERedKukaaeUK88Axai0g0Z6gBDAgJyeOToUCs%3D&reserved=0>

If you need more information, I am happy to help as far as I can, with the GeoTIFF.SWG.
Note: other “emergent” private tags for compression extension such as WebP and ZStd compressions might also be of interest…
PS: I understand that the TIFF tag register handled by Adobe is “confidential Adobe” or so. Of course, there is an interest for interoperability of TIFF/GeoTIFF data to have a public view on this. Hopefully the documentation provided by https://www.awaresystems.be/imaging/tiff/tifftags.html<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145555254%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=UzOEBkdZUGXOhoShf1B9rmsAkseg6%2BfTG7COqvVKXeo%3D&reserved=0> represent a “kind of” public view ensuring that there is no conflict between TIFF tag definition.

FYI, up to now, the OGC GeoTIFF.SWG only modernized the GeoTIFF specification in order to maintain it.
Other topics may become relevant in future work items, such as bigTIFF (Geospatial imagery may need to go beyond 4Gb) or Cloud-optimized GeoTIFF (which is mostly a TIFF “kind of best practice” emergent for geospatial imagery.
As you may see, these are mostly related to TIFF, so clarification on how the geospatial communities (and OGC) may work with TIFF and its evolution is key information for the OGC (and these potential future works). For this, Scott Simmons, the OGC TC, or Georges Percivall may elaborate more.

Best regards

Emmanuel Devys

OGC GeoTIFF.SWG/Chair
IGN Département Normalisation et référentiels projets| Service des Projets et Prestations
direction des programmes et de l’appui aux politiques publiques
T +33 (0) 1 43 98 85 75
ign.fr<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.fr%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145555254%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RrorYeoqS4QtoIr3NJ16wlCG98cbvHrnTBK6RSVYeWk%3D&reserved=0> – geoportail.gouv.fr<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeoportail.gouv.fr%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145565247%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=vXYUQm%2Ffl4gC2QS93%2Bd%2FygTXRhkXlF8O6lYGmOxNUwY%3D&reserved=0>




De: Scott Foshee [mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com]<mailto:[mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com]>
Envoyé: mardi 7 juillet 2020 01:38
À: Larry Beck; Emmanuel Devys
Cc: geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>; Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>); wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>; Scott Foshee
Objet: Re: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

HI Emmanuel… (and the long list of folks copied)

Please let me know if/how I can help you regarding Adobe TIFF.

I represent Adobe on most/all digital imaging standards efforts, which would includes TIFF issues. I report into the Photoshop/Lightroom teams.

Skimming through the below e-mail, I’ll comment that while Adobe registers tags to deconflict, we do not currently publish the tag list. We focus more on the tags we support in our products. Tags are currently registered manually; I can help with this if you have new needs. Actual registration is currently handeled by the Adobe DNG team. In the past registration was semi-automated via Adobe developer support.

If you send me a list of the tags that you think you have registered, I work on confirming their status with the DNG team.

FYI, I chair the ISO dig cam WG: TC42/WG18 and participate in many other standards efforts including JPEG/MPEG. As Larry noted, one of my early standards work was on BIIF which was done in SC24. I recently re-joined the US tag to SC24 mainly to monitor some of the AR/VR work. But that fortunately did facilitate this discussion.

Again, please let me know if there’s some way we could work together better. And let me know if there’s a list of tags whose status you want to confirm.

Scott

From: Larry Beck <larry.beck@cmpsinc.com<mailto:larry.beck@cmpsinc.com>>
Date: Monday, July 6, 2020 at 7:59 AM
To: Emmanuel Devys <Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr<mailto:Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr>>
Cc: "geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>" <geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>>, "Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>)" <ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>>, Scott Foshee <sfoshee@adobe.com<mailto:sfoshee@adobe.com>>, "wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>" <wprotzman@dcscorp.com<mailto:wprotzman@dcscorp.com>>
Subject: RE: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Hello Emmanuel,

I’m forwarding your email on GeoTIFF to Scott Foshee. He is the primary contact at Adobe for TIFF. I don’t know if you remember him from the 1990s. He helped develop the BIIF standard with ISO.

v/r
Larry

____________________________
"Larry" Michael L. Beck
NITF Technical Board (NTB) Technical Editor
STANAG 4545 NSIF Technical Editor
Compass, inc / NGA TAES
(404) 320-1824 Office
(480) 772-4638 FAX
larry.beck@cmpsinc.com<mailto:larry.beck@cmpsinc.com>
michael.l.beck.ctr@nga.mil<mailto:michael.l.beck.ctr@nga.mil>

From: Emmanuel Devys <Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr<mailto:Emmanuel.Devys@ign.fr>>
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 4:35 AM
To: Larry Beck <larry.beck@cmpsinc.com<mailto:larry.beck@cmpsinc.com>>
Cc: geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org<mailto:geotiff.swg@lists.opengeospatial.org>; Scott Simmons (ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>) <ssimmons@ogc.org<mailto:ssimmons@ogc.org>>
Subject: RE: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

EXTERNAL EMAIL: If unknown sender, do not click links/attachments. Never give out your user ID or password.

Hi Larry
Thanks for investigation and information. This is the answer to our question on TIFF support.
Therefore there is no need to consider any standardization action for the use of TIFF for geospatial.
IMHO, now that OGC is in charge / maintaining GeoTIFF, based on TIFF, ensure the GeoTIFF tags are duly acknowledged / maintained as “private” TIFF tags, with OGC being the authority handling these tags (for OGC GeoTIFF 1.1). Should we (or the OGC) contact Adobe (e.g Scott Foshee)?

For the TIFF tags, searching the internet for documentation, the following main references may be found:

  * https://www.adobe.io/open/standards/TIFF.html<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.adobe.io%2Fopen%2Fstandards%2FTIFF.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145565247%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ek4XVImTwTxrt5HjuU17vgIPAzvW7Q11pHAI%2FiJFg74%3D&reserved=0> with little information on TIFF private tags.
  * https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/formats/content/tiff_tags.shtml<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loc.gov%2Fpreservation%2Fdigital%2Fformats%2Fcontent%2Ftiff_tags.shtml&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145575241%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ActVSTz2SrMJNduz4bVuxjD7N6pab5FIMKZPFtMzxgM%3D&reserved=0> with information on GeoTIFF 1.0 private tags.
  * https://www.awaresystems.be/imaging/tiff/tifftags.html<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.awaresystems.be%2Fimaging%2Ftiff%2Ftifftags.html&data=04%7C01%7Csfoshee%40adobe.com%7C6f4ae2b09ed14c6b3fcc08d879e93d05%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637393390145585234%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2BC105Jx1LYyaNiFhu0mDjN0xMIoHY6Ayatq%2F%2Fxf%2Fdc%3D&reserved=0> where exhaustive information is available on baseline, extended and private TIFF tags.

I do not know what is the relationship (including on legal questions) between Adobe and Aware systems. Is Adobe providing any open reference information on TIFF tags?
Presently, OGC GeoTIFF 1.1 is using the same GeoTIFF tags as version 1.0, therefore there is no need for any change, but Adobe should be aware that TIFF is also used by geospatial on basis of GeoTIFF (either the old GeoTIFF 1.0 or the renovated OGC GeoTIFF 1.1 – backward compatible with GeoTIFF 1.0 and having the same use of TIFF tags).

In addition to the tags in support of GeoTIFF, what are the key private TIFF tags which may be of interest? I can identify the following:

  * GDAL_NODATA, commonly used for padding pixels / pixels with no value (used by GDAL library, but may be also used without GDAL library – unless I am wrong).
  * GDAL_METADATA, used by the GDAL library, holds an XML list of name=value 'metadata' values about the image as a whole, and about specific samples. This tag is a base tag for GDAL library.
  * GEO_METADATA (50909): for geospatial metadata, e.g based on ISO 19115 standards or profile (submitted by DGIWG). This one is necessary in support of DGIWG profile (for Defense).

Hopefully Adobe is aware of these 3 private tags, but I suggest contact be established with Adobe in order to clarify / formalize:

  * Use of private TIFF tags for GeoTIFF: Adobe must be aware / acknowledge the OGC GeoTIFF 1.1 for geospatial imagery.
  * Use of TIFF tags of interest for geospatial imagery: confirmation of GDAL tags, and registration (if not yet done) of the GEO_METADATA private tag.
And a question of the public/access to the official Adobe TIFF tags (baseline, extend, private), as well as the process to submit private tags to Adobe.

May be for developers / implementers, there would be one question on support of the libtiff library? (by Adobe, but may be Even Rouault has information about this).

@GeoTIFF.SWG and Scott and Larry does it make sense to you? Any comment?

Emmanuel


De: Larry Beck [mailto:larry.beck@cmpsinc.com]
Envoyé: dimanche 5 juillet 2020 14:52
À: Emmanuel Devys
Objet: Adobe is in full control of the TIFF standard

Emmanuel,

At the OGC GeoTIFF meeting someone stated that the TIFF standard was in the same situation as the previous GeoTIFF specification. That no organization was controlling or monitoring the specification. I spoke with the US TAG to ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC24 about it. They in turn spoke with Scott Foshee at Adobe.


This is his response:


> TIFF is copyright Adobe. Sorry, no one can work on TIFF other than Adobe except as noted below. I'm the external contact for TIFF at Adobe; so I'm the correct contact.

>

> Note that Adobe DNG is based on Adobe TIFF, so Adobe TIFF adoption is very widespread and in current use. Adobe TIFF is implemented by most dig cam manufactures as well as Apple, Android, etc via implementation of Adobe DNG and TIFF-EP.

>

> Further, the TIFF tag registry is maintained by Adobe, so those who say no organization has maintenance responsibility are wrong. We maintain this registry for Adobe TIFF and the licensed ISO variants. Most action here these days is related to Adobe DNG. I can help you out if you need a tag. Adobe would need to do any more extensive updates as well.

>

> Adobe has given out three formal restricted license grants to create ISO standards based on Adobe TIFF. These are TIFF-EP (TC42) (for Photography), TIFF-IT(TC171) (for documents/advertising) and TIFF-FX (IETF) (for streaming fax). These limit what ISO/IETF can do with TIFF; mainly to insure interoperability among the implementations. But none for 20+ years. There are several instances where Adobe has declined to provide a license. There's also an instance where Adobe went to ISO in Geneva to block publication of a TC attempting to standardize a TIFF derivative without a license. They changed their work to be based on TIFF-EP.

>

> Can you achieve what you need by basing your work on TIFF-EP from TC42?

>

> Also, TC42 is in the early stages of standardizing Adobe DNG. If the extensions to TIFF present in Adobe DNG are of interest, this might be more useful.

>

> FYI, several organizations have offered to to help out by standardizing TIFF. Adobe has never accepted any offers. This is due to TIFF being essential to Adobe DNG and in part due to the wide variety of folks who have adopted Adobe TIFF for various purposes.

V/r
Larry
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